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Palin-Biden debate: I'm a libertarian, thanks plenty

8:05 p.m. — Oh no, they're not showing audience reactions? As a third-party voter, however, will I make my decision? And now the woman is saying no cheering, no clapping, no "untoward outbursts" — must my decision remain entirely uninfluenced?

Aside from this small bit of insanity, Biden has already begun the slick-talk. "We intend to shift the focus to the middle class," or something to that effect. Sounds like he's avoiding the question. And shift the focus how? Less taxes … or more?

And a soccer-mom reference? Oh, very good Palin. The hockey mom is drawing support from the middle class; we're back to the "just like you" mode of subliminal advertising.

"I think it's fair to say I have as many friends on the Republican aisle as I do on the Democratic side." Oh, Biden, oh no. No no no. "And that shows McCain is out of touch." Well, one of you is. And, I'll give you a hint … it's the one debating.

"Team of mavericks." Oh Sarah, please tell me I'm hearing things. You are not still playing that line? "Send the maverick from the Senate and put him in the White House, and I'd be happy to join him there as well." I guess so.

And now we're on to who is to blame for "why the economy is hurtin' like it is." Palin blames greed and corruption on Wall Street. And, can it be true? The hockey mom analogy is back! So much for debate camp.

Biden, however, is not much better. "Barack Obama predicted this in December." Barack Obama can tell the future? Ohmigod, can he read minds too?

Biden, please, think about what your saying. Palin … just no more hockey mom comments. Both of you. Please.

Thus far, guys, I'm unimpressed.

8:57 p.m. — Biden: "And our country can be back on top like we used to be."

Palin: "Nu-cu-ler … nu-cu-ler … nu-cu-ler …"

Why? WHY? Good lord, please, if there is any mercy in the world, make it stop!

9:08 p.m. — Can it be? It would appear that Biden is getting flustered. Sarah Barracuda just keeps on pointing out all the little (and not so little) untruths, and she's doing it with a smile. She's right, and she knows she's right, and it's getting her all the confidence the press has been stealing. She even looks like she's having fun.

And Biden? He looks like he's reading off a teleprompter, and he's turning pale.

She's gone from not knowing what a VP does, to being the most eligible candidate for the job. The team of mavericks seems to have finally pulled one up on the donkeys — it's almost like talking to the girl next door; she's smart and witty and right.

9:24 p.m. — "He has not been a maverick to things that matter to people's lives!" At this point, Biden goes off on a long rant about how McCain voted with Bush and is all of the sudden changing his views.

Next question: Have you changed any long-held views? Answer: "Well, yes I have."

Hum. Good job there, Biden.

CLOSING REMARKS

Palin: I'm grateful for the opportunity to meet Biden and debate without the filter of the public eye; myself and McCain will fight for our country. Because we MUST fight for our country, or we will spend the rest of our lives telling stories about the good old days, because if something is not done, they WILL NOT LAST.

Biden: Nice to meet you Miss Commissioner. Our country has gone down the drain. We need reform, and we need it now, and myself and Obama will be the ones to bring it. We are at a turning point, and it's important that we take this time to act. Also, let's be nice to soldiers and people in general. We're ready. God bless you, but us more.

So that's it. And now they shake hands with everyone and smile for the cameras and wave and the CNN/Fox (yes, I am simultaneously watching two news networks) guys glare and try to keep their cameras trained on a now-moving subject. End? We'll see how the press reacts in the next couple days, but I think Palin won.

Palin. Won.

Wait, what?


Comments

Isaac Chambers's picture

Palin is doing very well at

Palin is doing very well at making her points in a coherent way but she is keeping her goofy mannerisms and she's sounding very sarcastic and condescending to Biden.

Biden has been doing a steady job, but nothing special, yet, with one exception of his comments on Health Care where the audience broke the no reaction rule and laughed.

Katy Metcalf's picture

Three cheers for the hockey mom

Actually, yeah, I've been quite impressed with Palin thus far. Aside from the unfortunate hockey-mom comments, I've been surprised by her cool and her quick and well thought out answers.

Biden, however, is simply giving more non-answers and using slick language to try and impress... who? In my opinion, he's not doing well at all.

Isaac Chambers's picture

If you listen closely, Palin

If you listen closely, Palin isn't actually answering the questions posed to her in many cases but rather going off on a tangent that she knows the audience will agree with.

Biden's holding steady, but not impressing.

Katy Metcalf's picture

I would even go so far as to

I would even go so far as to say that Biden isn't holding steady. Palin just keeps pointing out where he's wrong, and not only that, but doing it with a smile. That's getting her major points in my book. And... can it be... it looks like dear old Joe is getting flustered. Three cheers for Sarah Barracuda.

Isaac Chambers's picture

Sarah Palin's giving very

Sarah Palin's giving very quick witty remarks, but they are not all accurate. Personally, I dislike Palin's condescending and sarcastic tone.

But yes, I do think Palin is winning. Biden is doing very well on content, but Palin is probably doing better on style.

Katy Metcalf's picture

Perhaps it's a bit over the

Perhaps it's a bit over the top, but hey, she looks confident and she knows she's right, and considering all the crap the press has been giving her lately, I'm amazed that she's managed to pull it together this fluidly.

Isaac Chambers's picture

She's been at debate camp

She's been at debate camp for a week... what do you expect?

Katy Metcalf's picture

To be honest, I expected

To be honest, I expected her to get flustered and fail terribly, giving the press a bunch of really quotable, idiot remarks. And she hasn't. That a lot, for a week.

I agree

I agree, and Palin did hold her own against Biden. I think that it's amazing that shes been doing this for 5 weeks, and yet she's holding out against a 35-year veteran.

I wonder how many viewers

I wonder how many viewers know that the moderator is writing a book about the "Age of Obama"!?

Biden is barely keeping himself together.

I knew this would happen..

I knew this would happen.. Palin is winning this debate (though i HATE to admit it)

Isaac Chambers's picture

Palin is continuing to spew

Palin is continuing to spew a lot of platitudes and is veering off topic often. Is she giving answers or slogans?

Katy Metcalf's picture

She's giving highly quotable

She's giving highly quotable remarks that the press can pick up on. So yeah, she's focusing a lot on image. She majored in COMMUNICATIONS JOURNALISM. This is what she learned how to do. And considering her image in the public eye, she needs some good aspect of her seized upon, if only to counterbalance the 'Princess of the Mooses' aspect of her image.

Palin Strategy

Her strategy will have a minimal affect, because of the liberal-biased media coverage.

Isaac Chambers's picture

Listening to the debate

Listening to the debate responses, both liberal and conservative commentators have noticed that Palin's responses were "packaged" rather than substantive.

Isaac Chambers's picture

A line to avoid

"How long have I been at this? Five Weeks?"

I wouldn't have said that if I were her.

I think that Palin was

I think that Palin was trying to say that she's a Washington outsider compared to Biden.

Isaac Chambers's picture

She may have meant that, be

She may have meant that, be that's not how it came off.

True... true...

She could have worded that better.

The reason she's winning is

The reason she's winning is because she doesn't lie through her teeth. Biden lied about Barack Obama talking to Ahmedinejad, among other things, and Gwen Ifill is a biased moderator who stands to make money from Obama's win with her book, "The Age of Obama." The rebuttal ratio for Biden:Palin was 6:1. He was allowed to reply 6 TIMES more than Palin. Ifill cut her off multiple times. Despite ALL of that, she is still standing and giving clear answers. Palin may not win the entire debate due to the biased reporting on stations like MSNBC and CNN, but she surely won in reality.

Isaac Chambers's picture

If she "wins," she win's on

If she "wins," she win's on style and connecting with the audience, not on substance. She didn't offer answers so much as packaged lines and slogans, but she did what she needed to do: escape sounding confident and clean.

This debate was essentially a win for both of them, although I think it was more significant for Palin.

If she wins??

If Biden wins, it's a huge victory for the Obama/ Biden ticket. If Palin wins, the liberal media says that the debate "was only minor", or "this debate didn't affect the campaigns at all!"

Isaac Chambers's picture

Well, it's been proven that

Well, it's been proven that debates are rarely game changers, even presidential ones. The McCain campaign would likely see a bounce from this debate, but that will evaporate almost immediately when people realize they're not voting for Palin or Biden for president.

Good Point

Isaac has a good point here. We have all been following these debates closely but the leads that candidates gain in them (presidential as well) usually seem to be extremely short-lived.

Isaac Chambers's picture

"I think that Gwen Ifill is

"I think that Gwen Ifill is a professional and I think she will do a totally objective job," said McCain, "because she is a highly respected professional. Does this help that if she has written a book that's favorable to Sen. Obama? Probably not. But I have confidence that Gwen Ifill will do a professional job."

And more in defense of Gwen Ifill...

McCain probably said that

McCain probably said that for public appearances...

(I don't respect her very much either...)

Isaac Chambers's picture

True, but if you read the

True, but if you read the article, many of Gwen's colleagues, even conservative ones, have voucher for her ability to be fair and unbiased.

By the way, thanks for

By the way, thanks for covering this debate. Every other OG reporter is a clear-cut Obama supporter. This is the first time a Republican viewpoint has been allowed (yet only on a blog- this should have been a feature). It's really a shame to see that even a high school newspaper can be so biased.

Isaac Chambers's picture

It's not a shame, it's a

It's not a shame, it's a statement about the opinions and views of the youth of America.

I think it is hard to say

I think it is hard to say that the views of some 300 kids in a university town is a representation of the "youth of America". I have plenty of friends outside of school, the majority of whom would classify themselves as "conservative". Also, I think the Uni atmosphere really causes a lot of students who start out "independent" to gravitate towards the liberal side. I know I used to fashion myself a "conservative", but would now identify more in the middle of the two sides.

Isaac Chambers's picture

While that's true, it's also

While that's true, it's also true that youth overwhelmingly support Obama than McCain in both pre-election polling and exit polls. In many cases youth have supported Obama by almost 70%.

Katy Metcalf's picture

Well, you can't write a

Well, you can't write a feature during the course of a debate and pay attention at the same time. And one republican out of twenty-five reporters... We live in a blue state. Our senator is running for office. It's to be expected.

Isaac Chambers's picture

I do like how Palin attacked

I do like how Palin attacked Bush on education and no child left behind.

Laura Dripps's picture

Just because everyone

Just because everyone expected her to fail miserably and she didn't doesn't mean she did a good job....

Oh yeah, and Gwen Ifill is a baller.

Anyway, I'm not coming up with particularly objective points.

Katy Metcalf's picture

Well, the fact that she did

Well, the fact that she did a good job PROBABLY means that she did a good job.

Because she did.

Carl Zielinski's picture

If by do a good job you mean

If by do a good job you mean she either edged her way around or flat-out dodged almost every question thrown at her, then yes, she succeeded admirably. Otherwise, all she really did was attack Obama the entire time. Mr. Biden's content, on the otherhand was extremely well delivered and he actually managed to restrain himself from simply destroying Mrs. Palin, which would have been viewed in a very negative manner. All I can say is that when Obama is sworn in I'll be ecstatic to see Palin shipped back off to Alaska.

Isaac Chambers's picture

I think that's what it comes

Palin "won" in the sense that she didn't embarrass herself and came off very confident. Someone else said, "she won by not loosing."

If you look at who answered the questions better, who won on substance, I think Biden won. So that's how both of them won.

Biden... (cough cough)

Biden had more substance, he was lying like heck for most of the time!!! I think that Palin actually came out from this debate significantly above Biden, and you could see Biden pale visibly.

Lizzy Warner's picture

Katy majors props on being

Katy majors props on being the first person to post an entry. It was humorous too! I vote we debate this tomorrow in journalism class! And by the way, Isaac, you've been making some pretty good points!

Isaac Chambers's picture

One thing Biden did well in

One thing Biden did well in the debate was coming off very genuine. He talked a lot about the middle class, being a single parent, a parent with a son in the military, the struggles average Americans are facing in these tough economic times.

As a parent with a son in

As a parent with a son in the military, he's supporting someone who wants to rip the rug out from under the troops just before their hard work comes to a head in the winning of the Iraq war. If he's a single parent, why is he being commended and told he can easily handle the VP position when Palin, who is raising a child with Down's Syndrome and 3 other kids being told she cannot handle it, when she has a husband to support her?

Isaac Chambers's picture

Biden WAS a single parent.

Biden WAS a single parent. His kids are all grown up now, and he has also re-married. Biden has very little day-to-day parenting responsibilities when compared with Palin, so that's a terrible comparison to make. It's also stupid to say that Palin can't be a mother and a VP at the same time. I'm sure that with a VP salary for Palin, Todd could manage to be a great "mother."

Also, Obama does not want to "rip the rug out from under the troops just before their hard work comes to a head in the winning of the Iraq war." First of all, Obama has set a timetable for withdrawal, which even Bush has agreed is a good idea. Second, there's no end in sight to the war if we continue as we are now. Remember "mission accomplished?" And as a parent of someone in the military, Biden as more credibility rather than less as to making decisions that are in the best interest of the military. It's very selfish if all you're concerned about is "victory," and not the actual young men and women that we're putting into harms way. And until you can prove to me "victory" is near, like has been said so many times already without coming to fruition, don't use that as an argument to continue.

Biden, McCain, and Palin all

Biden, McCain, and Palin all have children fighting in Iraq.

Isaac Chambers's picture

So evidently a subjective

So evidently a subjective decision. Biden believes one thing, McCain and Palin believe another.

My point was that Biden would do nothing but what he feels is best for his country and his son.

Carl Zielinski's picture

It would have been nice if

It would have been nice if you had looked into this topic and seen that Biden was a single parent OVER 30 YEARS AGO. Hence, any children he had at the time have long since ceased to be entirely reliant upon him. Furthermore, he never dragged his children around as a political tool as Mrs. Palin does with her pregnant daughter and son with Down's Syndrome. To add insult to injury, she even took a page out of Frank Zappa's playbook and gave her children utterly dumbfounding names (Trig? Like the abbreviation for a mathematics course?) that sounds vaguely like she looked through the dictionary and picked random words.

Palin is still a hockey mom from Alaska.

Honestly, how can Palin win? She has no credentials to be a VP of anything. It took her 8 year to get a BACHELOR'S degree in journalism in the University of Idaho. She comes to the debate with that "hockey mom" aura and leaves the debate giving off the same vibe. She has no experience with foreign policy what so ever. She says that she has diplomatic affairs with Russia in the form of trade agreements. That may be true but, her trade agreements deal primarily with small villages and I am more than certain that the closest shes ever gotten to Putin is seeing him on CNN. Sure, she made some good points, but she said nothing to promote McCain just herself. Palin came out to be neutral for the party at best and is still a hockey mom despite the intellectual the media dresses her up to be. So as far as I'm concerned the republican vice presidency bid is an empty slot.

Jacob Druker's picture

Palin did a good enough job

Palin did a good enough job of not embarrassing herself like she did with Katie Couric, but it's quite a stretch to say she won the debate. I was pretty shocked when she straight-out told the moderator that she was going to talk about whatever she wanted, regardless of what questions were asked. In fact, she did that a lot, giving a perfunctory yes or no answer to a question and then talking about something else entirely. She kept going back to her energy policy, which I'm still not really clear what it is apart from more drilling, even when asked about things unrelated. This indicates that she was highly scripted during the debate, going back to her fairly small "safe zone" of stuff she knew whenever she couldn't answer a question, which was quite often, especially early in the debate. Later on she gained more confidence, but I still don't trust her knowledge of the issues, and I certainly don't trust her ability to think on her feet. Occasionally she had some good soundbites, but she was also pretty nonsensical sounding in the later half of the debate. Maybe leaving the safe zone wasn't such a good idea, although staying in it allowed Biden to take shots at McCain with impunity. While both of them ended up doing a lot of repeating slogans and holding up their respective running mates, Biden actually said something, calling McCain and Palin on some pretty important issues and on the whole "maverick" thing, which I was quite glad about. Palin just said what she was going to say and didn't pay attention to anyone else, and on the whole I felt she was giving a speech broken up by Biden's and Gwen's comments more than participating in an actual debate. As I said, she did a good job of not embarrassing herself, but I wouldn't say she won the debate. Part of the reason people think she did so well is that expectations were incredibly low for her. She did a better job of exceeding those low expectations than Biden did of meeting his own considerably higher ones, but if held to the same standard, Palin's habit of ignoring the questions puts her below Biden on actually debating in my book, and while that strategy may have looked gutsy to people who already supported her, I think most independents will see through it and realize all it means is she's uninformed and not really able to think on her feet.

The article and subsequent comments were pretty disappointing. I wouldn't dismiss Obama's prophetic abilities so lightly; it's about time we have someone in the Whitehouse who understands that actions have consequences and is willing to enact policy that takes that principle into account. I'm seeing accusations of lying with no proof, someone who thinks Biden still has ten year old kids or something, and some blather about "the liberal media." Seriously, someone send me a memo when they figure out what that is, if it's anything. I mean, if you don't want to read a liberal perspective, don't read The Nation. By the same token, don't get all your news from Fox. The New York Times is a good place to start. I just watched the debates on PBS and haven't read or watched any pundits yet. And what does "coming to a head" in Iraq mean anyway? I hear so much talk about "winning" the war there, yet no one knows what "winning" actually means. There aren't any major milestones that I've heard anyone describe as important in the near future, except perhaps the day we start the phased pullout, which cannot come too soon.

Also, to all anonymous posters: sign a consistent name to your posts. It doesn't have to be your real name, (though if you have the courage to stand by your opinions, kudos) just something to keep track of how many of you there are would be nice. I can't tell if there are two or three or more or less of you, and what, if any, argument any of you are trying to mount.

From another country

I was actually very impressed with Biden, it was my first time to really see him in action. I thought he did a good job of answering the questions and not evading the point. I really thought he did a good job talking about Bosnia and Darfur and was much stronger on that point than Palin. With my view from living out of the country. I think credibility overseas is very important.

I think that Sarah Palin evaded some hard questions by going back to statements like putting government back on the side of the people. She didn't make any mistakes, she just confirmed that I don't agree with her on many issues. I also thought she made a lot of statements that weren't worth much in answering the question. She is strong on education though, and she sure likes to talk about Alaskan energy.

Overall I thought the debate was good and clarified some of their views. The undecided voters in Ohio was a really interesting feature as well.

No photo provided

Yay Katy

The Libertarian camp at Uni: You and me. Good on ya. I'm amazed you watched the whole thing
Cheers!

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